#KeebWeebClub! ⌨

Eschew · May 5, 2021, 7:23pm

MGK64 Update - Case, Stem, Spring Swaps!

Note: Sound samples with Gazzew/Outemu Silent Linear Stems are absurdly quiet! Would recommend listening to them in a quiet environment.
ごめんなさい!: Long post because .MP4s, and they don’t seem to embed within a spoiler? Dumped the sound samples at the tailend of the post, after the Final Verdict. Many sorrys if it seems disorganized!

Tofu60 Aluminum Case Swippity Swap!

MGK64 + KBDfans Tofu60 Aluminum Case (Black)
Case is weighty, has a nice and solid heft.

Indent in the butt is probs for room for other electronics bits, or PCB compatibility? Not really needed for GK64 PCBs, stuffed the gap with more shelf liner.

MGK64 - “3 Layers” Aluminum Case
The main reason I bought a new case. USB Type-C port is skewed towards the right.
Case’s frame gets in the way of connecting cables to the keeb. 20x20

I’d have taken a dremel to the hole if I had a dremel lying around. 20x20

MGK64 - Disassembled
Yoink!
I mean, y0ink.

"3 Layers" Aluminum + Tofu60 Aluminum Cases
20x20

Tofu60 Aluminum Case + Shelf Liner
Shelf liner didn’t need much extra modification to fit in the Tofu60 Aluminum Case. Yey, compatibility.

MGK64 PCB + Tofu60 Aluminum Case
Snug fit!

MGK64 - Tofu60 USB Type-C Port
When I said “snug fit,” I meant snug fit. 20x20

Also, confirms my hypothesis, that it’s the dumbo “3 Layers” Case that’s skewed, not the PCB’s USB port.

MGK64 + OEM Fog White Keycaps
Heh, Minimalism™.

Gazzew Silent Linear Stem | Durock L7 Stem
Gateron Silent Ink Black Stem | Gateron Ink Black Stem
Goose, duck, duck, duck. 20x20

Two Stage Long Spring (150g) | Stainless Steel Spring (150g)
Gold-Plated SPRiT Spring (150g) | Durock L7 Spring (67g)
Gateron Silent Ink Black Spring | Gateron Silent Ink Spring
Store: [Stocks up on 150g springs.]
’Chew: I’LL TAKE YOUR ENTIRE STOCK. 20x20

Switch Modding - Modded Silent L7 Switches
Pippity pop, open up the switch’s top?

Additional Comments 20x20

L7 Switch Top Wobble: Noticed that Durock L7 housings don’t sit as tightly together as Gateron Inks. Throwing in some Deskeys Switch Films between the switch’s housings alleviated the L7’s housing wobble.
L7 Housing + Gazzew/Outemu Silent Linear Stem Wobble: Again, not as tight as Gateron Inks. Tolerances between the Durock/JWK housings and Gazzew stems are… a bit wobbly, but adequate, for me, at least. Less noticeable once keycaps are on.
Silent Stems: Cushioning those stems with rubber dampers makes a significant difference. Keystrokes are very muted, especially on the upstroke! Also, sound samples below suggest the Gazzew/Outemu Silent Stems are waaay more quiet than the Gateron Silent Ink Blacks, regardless of spring weight. Personal preference, I prefer the sound of the Silent L7s over Silent Ink Blacks.
Two Stage Long Springs : To my fingers, the difference between the Two Stage Long Springs (TS-150g) and regular Stainless Steel Springs (150g) are somewhat marginal? TS-150g feels a bit heavier than regular 150g, and the upstroke with TS-150g is slightly more aggressive. Theoretically, with the TS-150g, keystrokes should gradually feel more resistant as they draw closer towards the bottom, buuut… something something 150g and I can’t detect that minute sensation.
Lubrication : Ah, hmm… Something felt very off while typing with both the Silent L7s and the Silent Ink Blacks, mebbe it’s 'cos they weren’t lubed? I intentionally did not lube them for first impressions, 'cos I wanted, uh, first impressions, lol. Especially for the Modded Silent L7s. Also, wanted to only touch up a switch + stem + spring combination I felt confidently comfortable with. Gotta ration that lube, y’know?

Final Verdict!
[Drum roll–]
[Kicks drum away.]
Ain’t no one got time for that. 20x20

Found a liking for the Modded Silent L7 (TS-150g), out of the modded combinations I went through. Sooo, went ahead and lubed + filmed up those 99 × Silent L7s (TS-150g), then popped 'em into muh Eighty #391. 20x20

…Yes, 99, and not 100, because I mangled 6 × Modded Ink Blacks (150g) while ripping them out of Eighty #391, and I was literally one switch film short of 100 × Modded Silent L7s. 20x20

(Er, technically still have a sheet of 20 × Deskeys Switch Films that is still in mint condition, but… I’m not touching that sheet for one unmodded switch. Because. My. OCD. Is. Stupid. 20x20 'sides, 99 is plenty enough for a TKL. 20x20 )

Eighty #391 Update in the next couple’a days or so, when I can find pockets of time to ~~shirk work~~ I mean, divert a portion of my attention towards a productive, invigorating, and not-wholly-officially-sanctioned break. 20x20

MGK64 + Modded BOX Heavy Black Switches
Kailh BOX Black Stems + Top Housings
Hako Royal Clear Bottom Housings
Kailh BOX Ancient Gray Springs

MGK64 - Modded BOX Heavy Black Switches (Fast)

MGK64 - Modded BOX Heavy Black Switches (Slow)

MGK64 + Durock L7 (67g) Switches
Stock Durock L7 (67g) Switches

MGK64 - Durock L7 (67g) Switches (Fast)

MGK64 - Durock L7 (67g) Switches (Slow)

MGK64 + Modded Silent L7 Switches
Durock L7 Housings
Gazzew/Outemu Silent Linear Stems
Durock L7 (67g) + Kebo Stainless Steel (150g) + Flashquark Two Stage Long (150g) Springs

MGK64 - Modded Silent L7 (67g) Switches (Fast)

MGK64 - Modded Silent L7 (67g) Switches (Slow)

MGK64 - Modded Silent L7 (150g) Switches (Fast)

MGK64 - Modded Silent L7 (150g) Switches (Slow)

MGK64 - Modded Silent L7 (TS-150g) Switches (Fast)

MGK64 - Modded Silent L7 (TS-150g) Switches (Slow)

MGK64 + Gateron/Modded Silent Ink Black Switches
Stock Gateron Silent Ink Black Switches
Gateron Silent Ink Black Stems + Housings
Kebo Stainless Steel (150g) + Flashquark Two Stage Long (150g) Springs

MGK64 - Gateron Silent Ink Black Switches (Fast)

MGK64 - Gateron Silent Ink Black Switches (Slow)

MGK64 - Modded Silent Ink Black (150g) Switches (Fast)

MGK64 - Modded Silent Ink Black (150g) Switches (Slow)

MGK64 - Modded Silent Ink Black (TS-150g) Switches (Fast)

MGK64 - Modded Silent Ink Black (TS-150g) Switches (Slow)

Den · May 5, 2021, 10:47pm

That resonated on a cellular level.

Eschew · May 7, 2021, 3:19am

@Gegger

LOOK LOOK, LOOK-LOOK-LOOK!

Lime Ponzu Sauce: [Pre-Order] Lazy Afternoon Desk Mat

50x50 50x50 50x50 50x50 50x50 50x50 50x50 50x50 50x50 50x50
IDK much about doggos, pls tell me whether it’s a striking resemblance or not.

Gegger · May 7, 2021, 3:24am

aaaaaahhhhhhhh <3
it is quite like snowy yis yis
…want…want! want the keycaps too, but 90USD D:
this hobby is much expensive
danke for showing me!

Den · May 7, 2021, 10:31am

That makes me wanna lay on the floor and chill.
Need a pillow though.

flibberdipper · May 10, 2021, 1:15pm

Do you really gotta rub it in so hard that my typing sucks

EDIT: got around to doing it and we’re just gonna ignore the first few runs

Eschew · May 12, 2021, 1:38am

[Checks date.]
…

Eighty #391 Update - Hush, Hush
Spent an entire Sunday outfitting Eighty #391 with lubed and filmed Modded Silent L7 (TS-150g) switches!

Eighty #391 w/ Modded Ink Black (150g) Switches + Modded Silent L7 Switches
Modding Recipe:
Durock L7 Switch Housings
Gazzew/Outemu Silent Linear Stems
Flashquark Two Stage Long Springs (150g)
Krytox 205 G0
Deskeys Switch Films

Modded Silent L7 Switch
[…Lube noises.]
Was a bit more generous with lube application this time around.

Eighty #391 + Modded Silent L7 (TS-150g) Switches
Now if only the stabs would come in the same colorway for consistency…
…Pls don’t release Black Silent Linear Stems and compel me to buy them, pls.

EIghty #391 + EnjoyPBT Blank Black PBT Keycaps
First set of keycaps I owned, and it’s still my fave set!

Sound Samples!

Sound samples with the Gazzew/Outemu Silent Linear Stems are absurdly quiet! Would recommend listening to them in a quiet environment.
The Antlion Mod MIc was sitting right on the lip of the keyboard’s case, lol. Can’t get the mic any closer towards the keeb without my fingers whacking into it.

Eighty #391 - Modded Silent L7 (TS-150g) Switches (Fast)

Eighty #391 - Modded Silent L7 (TS-150g) Switches (Slow)

Eighty #391 - Modded Silent L7 (TS-150g) Switches (No Spacebar)

…Need to make spacebar shut up.

Had a couple’a friendos over last weekend, and let them try muh keebs! (Friendo Visit! Status Update)

Eighty #391 (Modded Silent L7 (TS-150g) Switches): “What the heck, it’s so heavy, how do you type on this?”
R2-968 (BKE Extreme Redux (90g) Rubber Domes): “…Whoooaaa my God.”
NIU Mini (Kailh BOX Navy Switches): “Ohhh, it makes a sound!” “Can’t imagine typing on this all day.”

MGK64 is currenlty stripped of switches, currently deliberating which ones to put innit.

Also, one o’ teh friendos brought their keeb over!!!

Surprise NK65! - Milkshake Edition
Keeb is adorable!
–MUUUH MILKSHAKE BRINGS ALLA BOYES TO TEH YARD–

NK65 - Milkshake Stabilizers + Switch
Took off a keycap and my eyes were like:
Switches are suuuper lightweight, a tiny bit scratchy as well. Nice, thocky sound when paired with the NK65. Colorway is distinct enough that I recognized it on first glance.
Stabilizers, tho, were a surprise! Didn’t expect them in Milkshake colorway. Apparently they’re NovelKeys’ own brand o’ stabs?

Took me by total surprise, 'cos the last I heard, they had a Leopold w/Cherry MX Silent Red switches.
And then one thing led to another and somehow two of them dropped into the custom keeb hole?
…I’m innocent. …Probably.

Den · May 12, 2021, 4:25am

Guest keeb!

Edit: Dear forum software,
Stop warning me that other people exist besides 'chew.
I’ll reply to who I want…

Den · May 14, 2021, 3:21am

Infinikey Amalfi Keycaps

Eschew · May 21, 2021, 6:44pm

ROG Strix Scope RX First Impressions from ShortCircuit (ASUS Sponsored)
Muh spiel on James’s ROG Claymore II ShortCircuit got yeet’d, and rather than regurgitating the same content, I’d rather look at something similar but slightly different?

ROG Claymore II has that modular macropad (tenkey + 4 macro keys + volume wheel) that the ROG Strix Scope RX doesn’t.

Blep

Should probably note that I have a massive bias against videos of keyboard “reviews,” regardless of whether the keyboard is pre-built, “gaming,” or customizable. It’s usually 90% marketing fodder, 10% unbiased info, and more often than not, something along the lines of “Yes, this keeb is great, you should get it.” or “Even though this keeb is not that great, it has this one cool feature (that is either already ubiquitous or otherwise has incredibly minor value), and you should still get it.”

Baaasically, 'Chew doesn’t like LTT’s (or anyone else’s) keyboard videos. Expect criticism. 20x20

Impressions of ShortCircuit’s First Impressions

"X Million Keystrokes": Honestly, intense dislike when this gets brought up in a review-like piece; it’s meaningless filler/padding to a video/article. What does it mean and matter if a switch is rated for 100 mil presses in a controlled lab or testing environment? How does that translate to the user’s tangible experience with the keyboard?
Keycaps: …This is probably the first time LTT’s brought up keycap compatibility? Though, still kind of irrelevant; in the event someone could find a set of keycaps compatible with the ROG RX switches (barring ASUS’s own aftermarket sets), the non-standard bottom row will probably bite them in the butt.
"Crispness": Would have liked for Linus/James (writer) to elaborate on what exactly they mean by “crispness,” since they’ve used that particular word multiple times and it doesn’t actually convey much meaning.
Spilling Water: Water? Weeeaaak. Spill some sticky-ass soda on it or something, SMH. Real-world scenarios, yanno?!
Privacy/Stealth Key: …They’re acting like Alt-Tab or Win + D isn’t a thing…? Um…? Redundant feature, IMO, but maybe the key could be remap’d to something else, I guess.

Optical Switches: No comment on how the ROG RX Red switches feel, as I’ve no first-hand experience with them (or any optical switches, for that matter). One concern – that LTT’s sort-of pointed out – is that the new(?) switch has a new stem design, and that means it lacks compatibility with aftermarket keycaps and switches. As in, if either the switch or keycap malfunctions (e.g. snaps off, gums up from liquids), instead of an easy switch/keycap swap, the entire keyboard gets replaced (or RMA’d).
Mechanical Switches: ROG Strix Scope RX also has mechanical switch variants, standard Cherry MXs, of course. One of these days I’ll remember to go to my local Best Buy and try them out… assuming it hasn’t gone out of business yet. Eh, MX-stem keycap compatibility is kinda dashed by the Left Ctrl + Bottom Row, tho.
Left Ctrl Key: Big-ass 2.25U Ctrl means smol 1U Win and… 5.5U Spacebar? [Mafs noises.] Yes. Probably still better than System76 Launch shennanigans, kek.
ASUS Armoury Crate: Bloatmalware that craps all over the drive when it’s installed. In my (limited) experience, it’s uncontrollable, messy, and hard to clean up after. Probably a semi-required install for most users, if they want to change/sync the keeb’s RGB or do fancier stuff with macros and keybinds/remaps. Also, screw the “U” in “Armoury.”

Gaming Keebs & General Keeb Thoughts (Smol Critique of LTTF?)
Not a fan of “gaming” keebs simply because I’m not part of the market ASUS (and other “gaming” peripheral brands) is targeting – big no-no for me it comes to obnoxious branding, stonewalling customizability, and marketing garbage. But if it satisfies other peepos’ needs/wants, then more power to them. Sometimes I see peepos trying to mold the market/audience to the product, when it’s usually the other way around – in simpler terms, when someone strong-arms OP towards custom keebs, when all they’re looking for is a simple or familiar plug-n-play keeb that’d work with their ecosystem.

We have a saying in Chinese, when someone butts into a convo that isn’t relevant to them:

关你甚么事?

Translates to “What does this matter/topic have got to do with you?” usually spoken in a confrontational tone. I mean, not everyone wants to invest the time/money into a custom keeb, not everyone cares about QMK, hotswap, aftermarket keycap compatibility, or modding switches. 25x20

And branded keebs aren’t inherently bad (vice versa; custom keebs aren’t inherently good)? Some do have neato features that I’d like to see in more custom/customizable keebs: modular tenkey/macropad, wireless conectivity, LCD/OLED screens, etc. Rotary encoders have been getting kinda popular recently (mebbe thanks to the GMMK Pro hype?), but they aren’t particularly ubiquitous on customs. And the Optimus Maximus – not quite custom, but not quite “gaming,” perhaps office/productivity-minded? – with its configurable keycaps/legends are quuuiiite cool. 20x20

Perhaps the only time I might be super judgemental of the other party is if they draw conclusions from a small sample size, unverifiable assumptions, or one-time occurances. Accurate, logical conclusions backed by reproduceable data/results (and the scientific method) matter a great deal to me, muh Major is in cyance, lol. For the same reason, I avoid making any direct statements about Cherry MX switches and or say, “No comment, because I don’t have firsthand experience with them.”

Honestly, #KeebWeebClub is very not meant to be a competition. Starting this thread, I intentionally did not write “Mechanical Keyboard Club,” nor “Custom Keeb Club,” because non-mechanical keebs and prebuilts exist, and peepos can like them, and that’s fine? The base line isn’t “If I spend money on a mechanical/custom keeb, will it impress other peepos and make them happy?” but rather “Am I happy with my keeb?”

At the end of the day, who’s the one typing on that keeb, and who’s expectations should that keeb live up to?

KthxTEDTalkbai. 20x20

Den · May 21, 2021, 7:45pm

Indeed. Keeb reviews can sometimes be on the audiophile side of saying something is subjective, but still expressing your views objectively and with indefinable adjectives to back it up.

Den · May 28, 2021, 3:57am

anon92484376 · May 28, 2021, 12:40pm

@Eschew weird question do you still have the links to the key caps for a Logitech G610

Eschew · May 28, 2021, 2:22pm

I recall writing about it, but it might’ve been yeeted.
Good thing, too! Er, I took another look at the G610 Orion, and noticed that it seems to use a non-standard bottom row (I was mistaken, last time):

Logitech G610 Bottom Row
1.5 Ctrl | 1.25 Win | 1.25 Alt | 5.75(?) Spacebar | 1.25 Alt | 1.25 Win | 1.25 Context Menu | 1.5 Ctrl

So whatever keycap sets I recommended last time probably won’t be 100% compatible with the G610, particularly when it comes to the 5.75U Spacebar, and maybe the 1.5U Ctrl keys. 20x20

ごめん!

anon92484376 · May 28, 2021, 2:24pm

Yeah it was yeeted from smth

I just need to replace my letters

Eschew · May 28, 2021, 2:39pm

M’kay.
Pls hold. I’m having a ridiculous amount of difficulty trying to search for Black Shine-Through Keycap Sets on Amazon. ?

I mean, there are listings. Just, they’re unreasonably expensive?
And the Tecware Keycap Set doesn’t seem to offer the all-black, non-pudding keycap set variant anymore (this was the set I linked last time, IIRC).

If you’re keeping the G610’s current bottom row, I’ll look into ABS (rather than PBT) keycaps. Would be a bit weird having differently-textured keycaps on the same board, maybe?

Or, if you’re doing your own searching, try looking for ABS Black Shine-Through Keycaps.

anon92484376 · May 28, 2021, 2:42pm

yeah it was I can probably find the other set you linked me
scratch that I can’t find it

Eschew · May 30, 2021, 7:43pm

Spiel: Tier Lists in Relation to #KeebWeebClub
I’m already not a fan of keeb reviews. So, keeb tier lists or switch tier lists? I don’t condone them, unless the author has very specifically and very obviously stated that the tier list is a reflection of their personal preferences and is not meant to be universally applied to everyone. In that case, while I still won’t agree with the author’s tier list, I will at least acknowledge it is their opinion, and will concede that “their feelings are valid.”

Ranking
The main feature of tier lists is ranking, and ranking implies one thing is inherently better than another. You can pit athletes against one another in a race, to determine who ran the fastest that one day, on that specific track. You can run Cinebench benchmarks, and compare how one system fares against another under a specific workload. I would not advise trying to turn a hobby deeply connected to personal preferences into a dick-measuring competition, or to foster it into an elitist community full of inbred opinions and toxic ostracism attempting to dictate other people’s choices.

Also, there is more to keebs than a single feature or a single configuration to rank them by. Different build materials, hot-swappability, PCB design, case design, mounting styles, firmware/software support, intuitive media control, wireless connectivity – the list is almost endless. Different people and different markets will prioritize their set of needs/wants differently; someone might be more comfortable with a wireless, full-size membrane board with chiclet keycaps, another might like a loud and fun keeb equipped with a modular tenkey, media controls, OLED, and RGB that’ll work seamlessly with their ASUS, Corsair, Logitech, or Razer ecosystem, someone else might prioritize their typing experience over all other extraneous features, being satisfied with their unassuming but very personalized keeb.

Even when the stock configuration isn’t satisfactory, modding exists to help remedy most faults. If a switch is too scratchy or too wobbly at stock, lube and switch films exist. If a keeb has too much flex or reverb, swapping mounting plates or adding in foam may help mold the keeb better to the user’s tastes. In a community where keeb and switch modding is easy and prevalent, it’s even more difficult to point at someone’s keeb and blindly rank it based off some personal criterion, or to claim that it’s simply “better” or “worse” than their neighbor’s.

Metric
Attempting to meaningfully quantify qualitative sensations with numbers is a fool’s errand.

Quantitative data is distinctly measureable and presentable as fixed numerical values, and that measured data may be tested and reproduced independent of the researcher’s opinions (e.g. spring weights).
Qualitative data is a description of qualities or characteristics, often influenced by the researcher’s perceptions, opinions, expectations, and a non-statistical description is used precisely because qualitative data cannot be accurately contained or defined by fixed numerical values (e.g. keystroke feeling, perceived sounds).

We don’t have benchmarks for keyboards or switches, because there’s no objective, universally-applicable way to test one keyboard or switch against another that would produce findings that are meaningful to every other consumer and enthusiast. A large part of that is down to personal preferences and priorities; one person might enjoy the smooth strokes and rounded bump of Zealios, another might prefer the sharper tactility of Hako Royal Clears over Zealios, someone else might find MX-style tactilies too lightweight and too soft, shunning them altogether.

Example:
(Specifically written in response to ThereminGoat’s Bobagum Switch Score).

What makes a score of 28/35 different from a score of 29/35? How do you equate that 1/35 difference to real life experiences, or in terms of how much someone likes something? A similar example: Can you quantify feelings into rigid numbers? (Happiness and love?)
If all switches are to be judged on the same metric (e.g. “Wobbliness” out of 25, “Sound” out of 10) and if those individual metrics add up to a “Total Score” that applies equally to all reviewed switches, that implies the metric is a direct comparison between the switches. A decent comparison would grade and analyze the switches in the same environment, under the same variables (same keeb, same test bench, perhaps even the same day, etc.). Preferably, this means every time a new switch “review” is added to the list, every other switch review would be revised and updated as well, such that the metric remains accurate.
How exactly is “sound” measured, and how does “x/10” translate into someone’s auditory experience? There’s silents, clickys, thockys – so on and so forth – and even within those categories those sounds can be slightly different and still satisfying, or just as displeasing (Example: REALFORCE R2 TKL Sound Sample vs. Eighty #391 w/Modded BOX Heavy Black Switches Sound Sample).
As mentioned before, a metric implies a direct comparison between switches. So, how is a metric for “Context” relevant and why does it factor into the “Total Score,” when context is entirely individual and specific to the switch?

Pretense of Objectivity
Possibly the largest issue I have with tier lists – attempting to establish an opinionated wall of text as canon. A long wall of text does not equate with accurate info. An opinionated review or article that misuses or misunderstands quantitative vs. qualitative metrics is not objective. A tier list that judges items based off a single person or single group’s personal criteria should not disguise itself as a universal truth.

This hobby is grounded in personal preferences and satisfying personal expectations. It’s not for a tier list, or an elitist group – or anyone else, for that matter – to dictate how a user should feel about their own keyboard or their switches.

Let people ask questions and let people explore their choices, rather than funnel their opinions down a tier list under the pressure and the illusion of “what’s acceptable.”

TLDR: Tier lists (and reviews) are an opinion, and opinionated lists should not be presented as or used by others as universal canon.

Okay, I think I’ve calmed down now. 20x20

Eschew · June 1, 2021, 3:57am

R2-968 Modding
20x20

#TopreGang 20x20

Reminder that Den is the best influence.

Help.
This is taking ages.

anon92484376 · June 1, 2021, 9:09pm

Found some cool projects.
first one is a T9 keypad that someone made.

This is a OSU! keypad that has hotswap switches and two keys but I think anyone can figure out how to use it.